Tuesday, February 22, 2005
Ron's Second Reply
(I did not see this posted on Ron's blog so I wanted to reference here so other would better understand my reply.)
Hey Frank,
In many ways, it sounds as if we agree with one another, but we have some
very basic and fundamental differences. I will start with the biggest one.
I am not limited to Christianity in my world view. I have a concept of God
that includes everyone, not just one religion. I have friends who are
Jewish, Moslem, Buddhist, Christian, atheist and agnostic. In my world, God
doesn't really care as long as we try to live our lives in a worthy manner
and do the best we can do for others. I find it frightening that people
live in this world expecting and hoping for the wrath of God when God and
Jesus tell us that Love is the answer. If he has wrath, I suspect it will
be for those who expect him to come in fury to destroy us. There is such a
thing as self-fulfilling prophecy and the gift of life is so great that I
just can't imagine someone not wanting to share in God's gift for as long as
possible. If religion makes you focus on the sin rather than the joy that
God has given, something is amiss, in my opinion. God is going to forgive
us if he made us as sinners. He made us. Why would he condemn us for what
he has made in us?
I don't believe the Bible was written by God, and I don't believe that the
translations of the Bible are always accurate. Even if they are, I find it
appalling that people use the Bible to pick and choose their scripture to
fit a certain circumstance. For example, the verses that have many damning
gay people in Leviticus are in the same context that says that eating any
shellfish is an abomination. How many people do we know who eat shrimp,
oysters, clams, crabs, etc. I recently was sent to read Romans by a gay man
who is drinking himself to death because he can't accept himself--thinking
his sin too great without even consciously realizing the impact on his life.
I read Romans and realized that the verses he mentioned to me were not
spoken by Christ, but by Paul. As far as I know, Christ's message was that
God is in us all and in all things...that we only need open a piece of wood
and there is God...pick up a stone and there is God...etc. I find that many
of the people who are involved in organized religion have lost the original
message of acceptance that Christ advocated. Often, they seem to be
directed more toward the power of control, of getting into people's lives,
of telling us how to vote or spend our money or to tithe and tithe and tithe
to their organization and above all, to fear. Fear is a weapon of control.
That having been said, if you or anyone else wants to worship any way they
want, it is none of my business, unless their worship crosses a line that
impinges on my rights. I think that we need freedom OF religion in this
country so that God-loving people can gather and worship. We also need
freedom FROM religion so that people who wish not to have that power walk
over them can feel safe from persecution. This is the basis of our
founding. The Puritans and Pilgrims originally left England because their
religion was not tolerated there. If my religion were "no religion", who
will protect my rights here if not for the US Constitution? (I used to live
in Southwest France. The Catholic Church massacred 10,000 Cathars there in
the name of God, but it was to take their land! They had no protection
because the King of France was viewed as God's Agent on Earth)
I agree with you about divorce. I think that if people are going to marry,
they should have to go through intense counseling, either with a minister or
therapist and that when they do decide to divorce that there be a severe
penalty for it. The legal stuff around divorce is all about money and the
system is built so that the divorcees lose a chunk of their stuff to those
who push their divorces through. Let that money go to the state to pay for
education, healthcare or some other worthy cause. If it turns out that the
husband is abusing the wife or vice-versa, put the abuser in jail and grant
the other one freedom immediately. No one should be abused because of bad
choices.
As for why I believe in God....there are too many coincidences in life for
there not to be a God. I find him sending me messages all the time. They
are invariably messages of love. God is ALL-Loving. Even the Bible says
so. I know that the teachings that I had as a Baptist kid do not follow
what I know now as an adult. I do not mean to attack the Baptists or any
other sect, but when I see something that seems to be wrong, I do speak my
mind. I have written before that I wonder how many people in the churches
would accept a Christ who might come back as a gay man, a black man, a
homeless man, a Moslem, a Jew, or something else that is unexpected. Didn't
Christ even say that when he returns he will not be recognized?
I, like you, don't claim to be an expert, but I know what fits my life just
as you know what fits yours. I wish you the love of God, plain and simple.
And I hope you know the joy of feeling that you belong.
Sincerely.
Ron
Hey Frank,
In many ways, it sounds as if we agree with one another, but we have some
very basic and fundamental differences. I will start with the biggest one.
I am not limited to Christianity in my world view. I have a concept of God
that includes everyone, not just one religion. I have friends who are
Jewish, Moslem, Buddhist, Christian, atheist and agnostic. In my world, God
doesn't really care as long as we try to live our lives in a worthy manner
and do the best we can do for others. I find it frightening that people
live in this world expecting and hoping for the wrath of God when God and
Jesus tell us that Love is the answer. If he has wrath, I suspect it will
be for those who expect him to come in fury to destroy us. There is such a
thing as self-fulfilling prophecy and the gift of life is so great that I
just can't imagine someone not wanting to share in God's gift for as long as
possible. If religion makes you focus on the sin rather than the joy that
God has given, something is amiss, in my opinion. God is going to forgive
us if he made us as sinners. He made us. Why would he condemn us for what
he has made in us?
I don't believe the Bible was written by God, and I don't believe that the
translations of the Bible are always accurate. Even if they are, I find it
appalling that people use the Bible to pick and choose their scripture to
fit a certain circumstance. For example, the verses that have many damning
gay people in Leviticus are in the same context that says that eating any
shellfish is an abomination. How many people do we know who eat shrimp,
oysters, clams, crabs, etc. I recently was sent to read Romans by a gay man
who is drinking himself to death because he can't accept himself--thinking
his sin too great without even consciously realizing the impact on his life.
I read Romans and realized that the verses he mentioned to me were not
spoken by Christ, but by Paul. As far as I know, Christ's message was that
God is in us all and in all things...that we only need open a piece of wood
and there is God...pick up a stone and there is God...etc. I find that many
of the people who are involved in organized religion have lost the original
message of acceptance that Christ advocated. Often, they seem to be
directed more toward the power of control, of getting into people's lives,
of telling us how to vote or spend our money or to tithe and tithe and tithe
to their organization and above all, to fear. Fear is a weapon of control.
That having been said, if you or anyone else wants to worship any way they
want, it is none of my business, unless their worship crosses a line that
impinges on my rights. I think that we need freedom OF religion in this
country so that God-loving people can gather and worship. We also need
freedom FROM religion so that people who wish not to have that power walk
over them can feel safe from persecution. This is the basis of our
founding. The Puritans and Pilgrims originally left England because their
religion was not tolerated there. If my religion were "no religion", who
will protect my rights here if not for the US Constitution? (I used to live
in Southwest France. The Catholic Church massacred 10,000 Cathars there in
the name of God, but it was to take their land! They had no protection
because the King of France was viewed as God's Agent on Earth)
I agree with you about divorce. I think that if people are going to marry,
they should have to go through intense counseling, either with a minister or
therapist and that when they do decide to divorce that there be a severe
penalty for it. The legal stuff around divorce is all about money and the
system is built so that the divorcees lose a chunk of their stuff to those
who push their divorces through. Let that money go to the state to pay for
education, healthcare or some other worthy cause. If it turns out that the
husband is abusing the wife or vice-versa, put the abuser in jail and grant
the other one freedom immediately. No one should be abused because of bad
choices.
As for why I believe in God....there are too many coincidences in life for
there not to be a God. I find him sending me messages all the time. They
are invariably messages of love. God is ALL-Loving. Even the Bible says
so. I know that the teachings that I had as a Baptist kid do not follow
what I know now as an adult. I do not mean to attack the Baptists or any
other sect, but when I see something that seems to be wrong, I do speak my
mind. I have written before that I wonder how many people in the churches
would accept a Christ who might come back as a gay man, a black man, a
homeless man, a Moslem, a Jew, or something else that is unexpected. Didn't
Christ even say that when he returns he will not be recognized?
I, like you, don't claim to be an expert, but I know what fits my life just
as you know what fits yours. I wish you the love of God, plain and simple.
And I hope you know the joy of feeling that you belong.
Sincerely.
Ron
